Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/You Lie Like a Dog

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. consensus clear subsequent to relist (non-admin closure) MaxnaCarter (talk) 06:36, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

You Lie Like a Dog

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You Lie Like a Dog (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Seems to fail WP:GNG and WP:NTV. I couldn't find anything at all on newspapers.com or GBooks. Deprodded right under the wire. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:02, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:02, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
• Keep - I noted when I remove the Prod that there was GNG coverage at Proquest; why not check there User:TenPoundHammer? Also there's a good redirect target at List of Animal Planet original programming#former programming. I'm not sure the relevance of the timing of the Prod, given that User:TenPoundHammer is making hundred's of prods; very few of which have been deleted - are these WP:POINT failures? Nfitz (talk) 21:16, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

  I don't have access to Proquest so I can't check it. Can you WP:PROVEIT for me? Also the last thing I redirected, you undid it literally two seconds later. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:18, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

  Everyone has access to Proquest through WP:The Wikipedia Library - which is why it's listed in WP:BEFORE. Not everything is a redirect target - if you disagree about a redirect, start a talk page discussion. Nfitz (talk) 21:21, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

  As you're the one who brought it up, the burden is still on you to prove that the sources exist. Just saying "but sources exist" is not an argument to keep on its own if you don't, you know, show them. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:31, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

  Sure, if there's a single AFD, adding a source to the article, or at least listing it here is reasonable; but when someone is creating dozens of simultaneous AFDs (very few of which are looking like there's consensus for deletion), that's asking a bit much. I don't need to fix your BEFORE failure - it's your job to BEFORE and consider ATD before going to AFD. Nfitz (talk) 21:44, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

  Is "I found nothing at all on newspapers.com or GBooks" not a WP:BEFORE? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:55, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

  Based on how many times it's not giving you results that are out there - no, I don't think it's good enough. Though I confess I'm surprised that for American shows you aren't finding more in newspapers.com ... it's not great for most countries though, but I'd think it would be good for the USA. Though a problem I find with newspapers.com for TV shows though is that you lose the tree of wisdom in the forest of TV listings. Nfitz (talk) 05:22, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

  Yeah, that's really the downside, weeding through all the TV Guide listings first. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 17:34, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

• Comment: "You Lie Like a Dog" + "Animal Planet" gives me several hits on ProQuest, but only one (a review from Entertainment Weekly) is even about the show, and it doesn't show even an abstract so I can't gauge how in-depth it might be. The rest are just passing mentions in articles about Animal Planet as a while. "You Lie Like a Dog" + "JD Roberto" only gave one hit. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 20:11, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

• Several? It gives me 56 with the Wikipedia Library account. (58 if I include non-Wikipedia databases). First one I see on the list looks very relevant, a 2000 Denver Post article ... which searching some of the text, I can also see a copy of that everyone can see at here. I haven't dug much further though User:TenPoundHammer, but the blurbs that come up in the search often mention something called "You Like Like a Dog" in quotes ... looks like an Animal Planet TV show ... Nfitz (talk) 05:27, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

  Most of what I see is only passing mentions. Like listing it among several shows on Animal Planet. That one looks fine though. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 05:29, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

• Comment As with the other AFD's, WP:NTV is an essay, not a policy/guideline and should not be invoked as a rationale for nominating something for deletion.—Mythdon (talk • contribs) 01:53, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: We need a clearer consensus on whether the subject passes notability guidelines. If there are refs with sigcov founded, please add them to the article.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Less Unless (talk) 15:31, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Less sniping, more consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 03:23, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

• Comment so far, no one has proven that any sourcing beyond the most superficial exists. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 04:41, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
  1. Eicher, Diane (2000-02-09). "Lying Down With Dogs". The Denver Post. Archived from the original on 2022-05-18. Retrieved 2022-05-18.

     The article provides 802 words of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "But for the most part, filming for the newest game show to hit television, "You Lie Like a Dog" on Animal Planet, has been free of incidents - and considering that half of the cast is of the four-legged variety, that's surprising. No dog bites or cat scratches, no misdirected skunk sprays. A turned-on turtle who had the hots for a wooden pull toy performed on cue, and a llama that does the limbo was well-behaved. ... In Round One, three contestants all claim to own the same pet, who's on stage with them. The ce lebrities try to determine "who's lying like a dog" by quizzing them about the animal's diet, tricks and bad habits. (On a recent episode, they asked the alleged owners of Rosie, a pug, to imitate her snore.)"

  2. Fretts, Bruce (2000-06-23). "You Lie Like a Dog Animal Planet, weekdays, 7 p.m.". Entertainment Weekly. No. 546. p. 47. EBSCOhost 3273140.

     The article provides 167 words of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "A panel of celebrities (mostly quick-minded stand-ups like Kevin Meaney and Cathy Ladman) tries to sniff out the fibbers among a trio of alleged pet owners by asking such tricky questions as, "Where does the dog like to be scratched the best?" (Answer: on the butt.) It's not as simple as it seems. ... With helpful interspecies info (e.g., a demo of mouth-to-snout resuscitation) and all prize money going to animal charities (e.g., Helping Hands: Monkey Helpers for the Disabled), you'd have to be a real rat not to love this Dog."

  3. McDonough, Kevin (2000-01-31). "Game show goes to the dogs on Animal Planet - Animals, not people are the winners on new show". Charleston Daily Mail. Archived from the original on 2022-05-18. Retrieved 2022-05-18.

     The article provides 130 words of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "The cable network Animal Planet takes a bite out of the game show craze with its new entry, "You Lie Like a Dog" (7:30 p.m.). A flea-bitten variation on "To Tell the Truth," this show pits a panel of celebrities against three contestants all claiming to be telling the truth. In round one, three people all claim to own the same pet. Only a volley of celebrity questions (by the likes of Jimmie Walker, Fred Willard and Dr. Joyce Brothers) can ferret out the truth. While no one is going to emerge a millionaire from this game show, animals come out the real winners. The celebrity panelist with the most points at the end of the game will have a donation made to the animal charity of their choice."

  4. Raouf, Neda (2000-03-09). "That's his dog, really". Press-Telegram. Archived from the original on 2022-05-18. Retrieved 2022-05-18.

     The article notes: "Rudd and Rosie will have a chance to become known to a greater portion of the Long Beach region tonight, when the two appear on a taped comedy game show airing on cable. The show, You Lie Like a Dog, on the Animal Planet cable station, is scheduled for 11:30 p.m. Rudd will display his dog-owner skills to prove that he owns Rosie, who is 2 1/2 years old. Celebrity contestants will quiz Rudd on Rosie's favorite toys, weight, sleeping habits, and if he can, imitate her snore, said Rudd, a substitute teacher for the Long Beach Unified School District. The celebrities who collect the most points by matching owner and animal will have a monetary donation made to the animal charity of their choice, he said."

  5. Eliason, Marcus (2000-01-28). "PBS Studies U.S.-China Relations". Associated Press. Archived from the original on 2022-05-18. Retrieved 2022-05-18.

     The article provides 85 words of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "Cable's Animal Planet is introducing a game show to demonstrate that, of all the creatures in the animal kingdom, people are the least trustworthy. You Lie Like a Dog features J.D. Roberto presiding over three celebrity guests and three contestants, all of whom claim to own the same pet. It's up to the panel to determine who's lying like a dog by quizzing each contestant on day-to-day life with the pet. Airing each weeknight, Lie Like a Dog premieres tonight at 7:30 p.m. EST."

  6. Williamson, Dianne (2000-02-13). "She Doesn't Like Spiders, and Snakes \ That Isn't What It Takes To Replace Court TV". Telegram & Gazette. Archived from the original on 2022-05-18. Retrieved 2022-05-18.

     The article provides a few sentences of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "I told Mr. Goldstein that one of the shows on Animal Planet is called You Lie Like a Dog and involves contestants trying to figure out which panelist is fibbing about ownership of respective pets, along with other pet issues. "Well, not every single thing is intellectual," he noted. ... The show You Lie Like a Dog conjured instant images of the O.J. Simpson trial. And when I learned that the black beetle "thrives on dung and decay," I could have sworn I saw the soul of Jenny Jones staring out of its beady little eyes."

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow You Lie Like a Dog to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 07:17, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: The last relist - please consider the new sources presented in the discussion
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Less Unless (talk) 14:10, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

• Keep Per sources identified above by Cunard. DonaldD23 talk to me 13:47, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.